Yesterday, a friend of mine and I were exchanging emails about writing accomplishments for the day. We tend to keep each other honest.
Her: I wrote 2,978 words today.
Me: Bitch.
Her: You know, I’m 22 words away from 3,000. And I thought, no, I’m too tired, I’m letting it go at 2978. You may have just changed my mind.
Me: Wiener head.
Her: Nah, I don’t have 22 more words. Unless I cut and paste wiener head 11 times! Eureka!
Me: I’m going back to bitch. Bitch.
And yet, she knew, without question, that I was completely proud of her. She’s stellar at capturing world and tone and nails me when I get too wordy, phrase things awkwardly, or when I muddy an issue. I help her with world building, motivations, pacing and logic. (Well, we probably do about the same thing for each other.) We’re brutally honest.
Another friend and I exchange rough drafts for each other’s take on certain issues. She always (always) nails me when I tell instead of show something. She’ll catch psychological motivations and ask difficult questions ahead of where I’m going which help me sort out the kinds of complexity I want to give the characters. I tend to nail her on lack of imagery, lack of showing, and logic issues. We trust each other to be brutally honest.
I read something of hers a long while back, and I kinda loathed the main character. A lot. A whole big fat barrel of a lot. Right off the bat, and I started making notes in the margin about this issue. I was very tactful:
“I’m hating her here.”
“Geez, she’s a bitch.”
“Okay, she’s making me itch, now. I want to slap her.”
“Never mind slapping her, I want to set her on fire.”
“I’m lighting the match now.”
Luckily, she didn’t send a hit man out to get me. (Well… yet.) And also, luckily, she’s as blunt as I am, and that works for us.
There are various writing friends that I have a wonderful brainstorming sort of relationship with; we will call or write and toss out a problem and everyone will throw in their two cents, knowing the writer is going to take it and run with it. No one feels proprietary toward their idea mentioned, and no one feels slighted if their idea doesn’t fit the writer’s needs. We can’t always know what else the writer is doing / working on / seeing for the future of their book, so we can’t know exactly what will spark that epiphany for them… what will combine with some other random idea that the two meld into the perfect thing to do. I trust these people know that I’m not going to ever worry or care if they use something, and vice versa. I also know that anything I discuss with them won’t go anywhere. (Not that anyone else would care–it just feels freeing to have that trust.)
Some people like to write and brainstorm completely alone. I would go batshit. It’s a matter of personal preference, and there is no one right way. It’s whatever works for you.
After writing for over twenty years, though, I’ve worked out a few guidelines of writing “partnerships” if you will–people you’re willing to share your work with and get feedback from. [I’d like to take a moment and state here that, for me, getting feedback is extremely helpful. It speeds up the process, because I see much faster if I’m doing something that’s working across the board or is confusing and/or not successful. I don’t need my ego stoked. I need to know what’s working (so I don’t go screwing that up) and what’s not working (so I know what to focus on).]
Here are a few rules, though, that I think are a healthy way of working together:
1) never, ever, on pain of dying, will there be any personal insults. It’s okay to say how a character is making you feel. It is not okay to say to the writer, “You write crappy characters.” If you are getting feedback from someone who crosses that line, find someone else. This person doesn’t know enough to know when they’re being hurtful… how can they know subtle shades of characterizations in fiction? If you tease (like I did in the first example), make sure that’s okay with the other person, that they’re on the same wavelength. My friend and I have known each other for… er… close to 15 years. It’s a pretty safe bet she knows how I mean that.
2) agree ahead of time as to your style of critiquing. I don’t read for very many people any more. I’m too rough, and I came out of an MFA workshop background, and then a screenwriting background–both of which are like being in the trenches in open warfare. Neither one of those situations encourage kindness and tact, and while I will strive to be tactful if it’s a new writer, I’m generally not very successful. Here’s why: people vote with their pocket books. They’re not trying to be tactful, either. If I coddle someone because they can’t handle the truth, I haven’t done them any favors, because the time they could have used to make improvements gets thrown away.
However–my style is not right for everyone. In fact, it’s probably not right for most people. That’s okay. Talk to people about their style of critiquing.
3) agree ahead of time as to the depth of critiquing you need. Let’s say, for example, that you’re in first-draft mode, and you just need to know if the logic of the book works. People go from point A to C to F to D for specific reasons and is that clear? But you get back a critique that focuses on the fact that it’s not polished, and they harp on a bunch of little details about sentence structure and language… and they’ve just wasted their time, and yours. Now, sometimes, you can tell someone, I need a logic check, and they’ll see a motivational problem that doesn’t track… these are both big issues, about the same level, so that’s a good catch. But when you’re looking for the big things and someone focuses on the minutiae, you’re at the risk of derailing. Because what generally happens when you see the minutiae is the equivalent of “Oh, Woe! I sucketh much! I shall throw myself off the ledge and never write again!” or worse, you get caught up in fixing the minutiae and forget to fix the bigger issues.
4) expect every critiquing partner to have different strengths. I’ll tell you right now, my weakness is going to be spotting awkward phrasing, unless you lose me completely. I’m not a grammar buff, unless you totally suck, and I’m not one who really cares if the language is profound or workmanlike. What I care about is story. I can generally assess someone’s style within the first paragraph, or at worst, page, and I’m entering into a contract with them: okay, I’ll think, I get your style, I’ll not question it unless you betray yourself… I’ll go with this flow as long as you keep me in your story. Some people can’t do that, and that’s okay. In fact, that’s kinda helpful at times, because they are wired to notice stuff like style, so if you are inconsistent, they’ll catch it. I’m very good at catching logic problems and motivational issues, and whether or not a character’s thoughts/needs/desires tracks emotionally throughout the story. I’m pretty decent at catching how you describe your world, though I tend to not care if the story is compelling (which means, in critiquing, I’ll miss stuff if I’m interested).
After the rough draft phase, I’ll get two or three close friends to read the work, so see if it’s working. At some point farther out, maybe a draft or two later, I’ll get fresh eyes, people who need to see things more polished, because they excel at language and resonance and subtlety.
5) plan ahead as to how much you’re going to share, and how frequently. I have several friends who can read almost whenever I send something. I try never to send really big chunks, though, unless I’ve checked ahead of time. I also ask how long do they think their turnaround will be. That’s not to put pressure on them, but so that I don’t sit around, wondering and fretting. If they’re running behind, they let me know. And vice versa. I hate not knowing. I’d rather have the bad news, if you hate it. I can learn from that. I can’t learn from not knowing.
6) know that you do not have to use everything the other person says, and vice versa. The upside to having other writers read and critique is that they “know the language.” They know story arcs and motivations/goals/needs. They know pacing and structure breakdowns and turning points and McGuffins and red herrings and on and on. This is useful because they can articulate better what they think the problem is, and why, and where. Readers may or may not notice the issue and if they do, they may not realize what’s causing the problem… so you’ll get something like, “page 30 was really slowing down for me” and you’ll look at page 30 and it’s a high-speed chase. So “slowing down” isn’t quite logical… but probably, what really happened, was that they stopped caring about the character somewhere earlier and didn’t fully realize it until page thirty and they realized they didn’t care if the character survived the chase. Changing page 30 won’t fix the problem, and you’d be mislead if you did so; changing the issue earlier could mean page 30 is now perfectly fine. Or it may mean there’s no longer a chase. Hard to know, but you have to get to the underlying problem.
Having writers read is, therefore, helpful, since we speak the same language.
However, it’s also a trap, and one you have to be very wary of, because each and every writer has a way that they would do that story. And as objective as they may think they are being, they aren’t you. If it’s your story, and what they’re saying doesn’t really resonate, then set it aside and think about it. You may recognize that there is a problem and find a completely different solution. You may also recognize that this is their particular bugaboo, and it’s not bothering anyone else who read it, and so you can easily chalk that one up to “it’s just them” and let it go.
The real trap, though, is to get too heavily influenced because they are enthusiastic about their ideas for the solutions, or they explain them so dynamically and damn, you do have a problem there, everyone says so, and you don’t know what to do, so what the hell, you’ll do that one, and before you know what’s happened, you start feeling bored with the story, or disconnected from it, or you have longer and longer periods where you struggle with it… because it’s no longer your story. So watch for this. Use something only if you love it. Discard it if it’s not resonating with the story in your head that YOU want to tell.
7) Don’t let anyone try to guilt you into using what they suggested. Even though this is almost identical to what’s above, it’s a little different. People who give you notes have got to be willing to then let go. If you have someone in your life who’s critiquing for you, and then checking to see if you followed their suggestions, they’re poisonous, whether or not they mean to be, because they’re dictating. And you’re not there for dictation.
8) No whining. Seriously, no whining. If you send something out and ask for feedback, 99.99999% of the time, people are going to have notes. Not because what you write needs notes, but because you asked for them, and people like to please. They do. They want to help. You asked them to help, and they’re going to feel like they didn’t help if they don’t give you notes. So while they may have picked up that book in the store and read it and loved it and could have been perfectly happy with it, you’ve now indicated that it’s not, in fact, perfect, because you want notes on it, and they’re going to nitpick until they find some. Know this ahead of time, shut up about it, and deal.
9) Do not argue. Seriously. Again. SERIOUSLY. Shut up. Don’t argue. You are not required to agree with the notes. You are not required to do the notes. You aren’t even required to understand the notes. Just express gratitude, if you hate them, for the person’s time and effort. They probably meant well. (For the ones who didn’t, this also tends to shut them up.) You can ask more questions for clarification, you can debate the subject, if the other person understands you’re trying to grasp their point and get to a deeper understanding of why they gave that note… but you cannot argue and try to convince them that they’re wrong and they shouldn’t have given you the note. If you find the desire to do that repeatedly with someone, they’re not the right critique partner or group for you.
10) Be thankful for the person’s time. Respect their time and reciprocate in a timely fashion. If you find you’re reading frequently for someone who doesn’t read quickly/frequently in return, then they’re not the right person for you.
So, there you go… a few guidelines to help with finding a critique partner or group.
How about you–do you have a CP? Do you write alone? As a reader, do you ever want to see a work in progress? Or do you feel “please-God-no, just show me the finished work?”
My first writing group was the Pregnant Pigs — we were a diverse group, and as a total newbie, I found giving feedback as helpful as receiving it. Your rules are spot on. I now have a couple of on-line partners with totally different strengths. They’re invaluable for catching my weaknesses.
I like being able to have someone to bounce things off, and would love a brainstorming group. Hope to find one when we move.
Terry, that name is hysterical–the Pregnant Pigs! (I had to read that twice to make sure I read that right.)
Online has been a salvation, regarding finding the right friends. I’d have been dead in the water here 10 or so years ago, trying to find critique buddies. I got online in 98, and it changed my life.
Toni, brilliant as always. This is such a tough subject because everyone is different with critiques, brainstorming groups, etc. I love feedback, but I also have the problem of taking every idea and trying to implement it. In my early manuscripts, I had a few cps and they really helped me with the basics (I *was* a *was* freak!) but after a few books, I simply wrote for my editor.
I have a couple of really good friends (you know who you are) who will bounce ideas when someone’s stuck, but no one usually reads my book except my agent and editor. This past ms, however, I wrote incredibly fast and was worried that I maybe missed something “huge” and that’s why the book was easy. So I had a friend beta read the whole book before I submitted it and that was WONDERFUL – mostly for the validation. (Hey, Barbie!)
There’s so much time and give/take involved in critiquing, so many potential problems – but when you find the right person and it works….magic.
Great post! xo
Rocki, the more BF books I got under my belt, the fewer people I handed the book to in the early process. (Two, I think, was all there were for the third book.) But now that I’m writing something totally different, I’ve sent out the beginning to a few who’ve asked to see it, just to get an array of responses. I probably won’t send much of the rest of the book out, just because I am in a groove and know where I want to go with it.
And also, you write so brilliantly, *and* fast, I can see why you’re at a place where that isn’t a need!
As Rocki’s beta reader, it was SO much fun. She really is awesome, isn’t she?
I’m good for “validation”, I suppose. I get excited about stuff so Rocki gets bunches of emails with plenty “YAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAY!”, “OMG OMG OMG” and, my personal favorite: “(&%¨$@$()**(¨%¨#%¨” (because she left me with cliffhangers for the next day)
🙂
Great post, Toni. I think you nailed it perfectly! I love having my pals to bounce stuff off of and to brainstorm with! Trust and respect are essential!
LOL… Deb, you just reduced 2200+ words down to three: Trust and Respect. See? I toldja I was wordy. 😉
Great advice Toni! I reposted it today for my aspiring authors in my Thursday’s Writing Tidbits section. I’ve also provided a link back to this site.
Thanks again!
Thanks, J!
I’ve always said you were a wise, wise woman. Great post.
Karin and our friend/crit partner Edie went above and beyond with THE HUNT when I had to completely rewrite that book in revisions. Without them, it would never have been half as good. Karin is good with the hard questions. She’s firm and doesn’t mince words, and I need that!
LOL on the wise. I just figure I’ve done everything wrong at least once… if I can keep from repeating that, I’m golden.
Karin *is* tough, and sharp.
firm, togh, doesn’t mince words and sharp! Thank you, ladies! true compliments coming from you both! and always glad to lend an eye.
Toni this is one of my favorites posts! You really outlined the critique process. I have a few people I work with, and they are all fabulous.
I’ve been “rescued” more than once by friend-writers. Either when I hit a snag, or in panic-revisions. I don’t what I would do without them!
I like critiquing for my CPs. They are very talented, they ignore my comments that don’t work for them, and they know I’m only trying to help in my sometimes rough and clumsy fashion.
Jen, thanks! And I know with me, I end up learning as much, if not more, in the critiquing process than I do on my own stuff when I’m receiving the critiquing. I am forced to employ a different mindset when reading for critique, instead of just casual reading, and I need to keep those analytical skills sharp, or it’s too easy to ignore problems in my own writing.
GREAT post!! I have had the same crit group for over a decade, with a few “staff changes” now and then, and I rely on them for so much. One thing I’ve definitely noticed is that we have a “shorthand” for getting right to the point with no coddling. I’m sure a newbie might think us harsh but we just already know we love each others’ work and don’t have to explicitly state it. We also know what each of us is good at and we make sure to really capitalize on those skills.
Sophie, that sounds like a terrific group. And yep, with ya on the shorthand. I have stopped reading new people because I’m too brutal, and I genuinely don’t mean to be. I’m not proud of that… but I want to get to the core and break that open, and I forget sometimes that a person’s hopes and dreams are attached to that work. (I mean, mine are attached to my own, I have no excuse for forgetting that, but I tend to.)
You know, it boggles my mind that any of you (Toni, Alllison, Roxanne, etc) even need someone to help them with their work, you’re all such awesome writers (and I’m not kissing up…unless it gets me free books..haha)
Seriously though, it’s inspiring to know that even the greats ask for help.
I recently started critiquing (face to face) with a woman in my RWA chapter because since moving from Texas to Az I haven’t been doing much writing and I need someone to make me accountable for my pages like my former Houstonian CP used to do. I have others I can send my work to, but online critiquing isn’t as productive for me. I learned a long time ago not to take critiques too personally and to use what works and toss the rest.
My CP and I have only had one meet but we seemed to hit it off well and bouncing plot lines off each other has gotten us both motivated to complete our wips. (not to mention the deadline I promised someone) And, hopefully I bring enough to the table to help her.
If someone asks me for a critique I generally ask for the full story for two reasons. (1) So I can make sense of the story as a whole (2) So if it’s a really great story I don’t want to be left in the middle and have to wait months for the end. lol But, I’ve critiques partials and usually tell them my style up front (line by line–pointing out craft issues–pov, showing/telling, dialogue) so they don’t think I’m being too nit-picky. Of course, I also give the story two reads before critiquing.
uh…great post Toni. 😉
Thanks, Terri! I was sitting there when you made that promise about sending that book.(Holy freaking GEEZ, was that 2 years ago? Really? Wow.) WRITE THE DAMNED BOOK. I will be there in April. Don’t think I’m not going to harass you then. 😉
lol…If I don’t have it completed by the time you get here, dinner is on me!
Yeah, I can’t believe that was two years ago either (or that he still remembers, hah). Where’s the time go???
Great post, and thanks to Sophie for me finding this site. I don’t think I could have a prayer of becoming a published author without honest critique partners. An unintended consequence is that I learn almost as much by critiquing others as I do reading their critique of mine. I’m sure later things will change. One or two trusted groups or people I think saves months and months of worrying and wondering when we start submitting. We all know that’s not very nice either!
Sharon, exactly–that’s the same for me. It’s not always easy to build to the exact right group, but when you find it, they’re priceless.
Sharon, you are doing everything right! Networking, seeking out other authors, learning – you *will* find just the right group i am sure.
I belong to a critique group. We meet on Tuesday nights at a bookstore. There are about 14 members but not everyone shows up each week.
Toni – your list is spot on. You also can’t let a critique get you upset/angry. Each person offers there opinion. It is your job to use the helpful information and quietly discard the rest.
Currently there is only one other woman in the group. Just this week the guys thanked us again for catching comments/behaviors in their female characters.
Each one of us is at a different level. Some should start submitting right now. While the rest of us, me especially, have a ways to go. That’s okay. We have all improved because of the group and I thank god the hubby didn’t let me chicken out of going to my first meeting almost 2 years ago.
Oops, meant their opinion.
Holly, yay for a great critique group! I think you are a very talented writer, and I cannot wait for the day when you hold your first published book. I have faith that you can do this. 😉
I love having guys read my stuff for feedback, though they tend to not nitpick as much. (I don’t know why.) But it’s great to see if their attention is captured, and what captured it.
I wish this post would have been handed out in my Creative Writing class in college. We had to write something and give everyone in the class a copy to take home and critique. Many of us didn’t really know what we were doing. About 50% were kind,30% said what would make the work help, and the rest were just nasty. I have not written anything since that class.
As a reader, I’d rather see the finished work. If the author asks the readers for our thoughts on certain things I’d help with that.
Leni, that is terrible! I hate that you went through that, and I empathize–we had the same problems in our classes. The professors almost seemed to enjoy the nasty people (sometimes), which baffled me, because there was no point in being nasty except for that person to show off.
I hope that if you still want to write, you don’t let that stop you. Idiots always try to throw themselves in front of other people’s dreams because they can’t stand to see someone trying when they’re failing. I say, ignore them, and keep going.
[fwiw, I went five years without writing because of a specific cruel experience in a college class. I wish I had that five years back.]
Hi Toni,
I have never had a CP, but this post is inspiring. Sounds like it’s all about finding the right fit. The only person who reads my stuff ahead of time is my agent, because I totally trust her input.
Laura, that is so cool. My agent and I are really going through this process for the first time on this new book, and she gives great, insightful notes. I’m so glad you found someone that works so well with you!
I had a great crit group for a long time, but after I sold I just didn’t have the time to give them what they needed because of my deadlines. So, sadly, we parted but still help each other out once in awhile. I do have a crit partner, who is amazing. I also work very closely with my editor. It takes a village!
Just read your blog and loved it ! It was hilarious and SO very interesting for a non-author like I. (For now on I’ll feel much better when I want to smack a hero/heroine ;-).
Have a great sunday !
Bopping in late, as usual.
Your crit help with No Mercy, and being there for me when I needed to brainstorm ideas on Mercy Kill…invaluable. Don’t know if I can say that enough 🙂
When I first started writing I had a crit group that was great, but the busier I got with contracts, the less time I could devote to the group, so I dropped out. But I wouldn’t trade the experience for the world.