 | 13 Nov 07 |
Note: This business is full of ups and downs, and I, like most authors, have seen a LOT of downs. I found out last night, however, that TAPPED OUT is on the IMBA (Independent Mystery Booksellers Association) Bestsellers List for October, which is just about the coolest thing that has happened to me in the time I have been writing. Right now is an up time. I am sure down times will come again. And so, I give you today’s blog. It is chock full of good advice from writers in the publishing trenches.
Tomorrow, my parents will be attending the funeral of a man who lived across the street from them. My mother told me about him a few months back. He was a writer, like me. (That’s what they say, despite the fact there are many, many different kinds of writers.)
“He writes novels,” she said. Like me. “But he is not published. His wife goes out to work, so he can write. But I think that is wearing thin.” Like me, and unlike me. I write novels, I am published, but I don’t make a ton of money. That’s the myth, folks. Most writers are not rich and famous, with two swimming pools in their mansion, and a summer home on the Cape. Most of us are barely getting by.
And my mom was right. The “no money” thing was wearing thin. Two weeks ago, they had to move out of the house they were renting. The owner decided to sell it. There were whispers of unpaid back rent.
The wife finally gave him an ultimatum. She told him she had been waiting long enough for this writing success. There was no money coming from it. There was no HINT of money, even. He was still unpublished. He needed to get a real job.
Wednesday night he committed suicide.
When my mom told me about his death, I was shaken up. I did not know him, had only seen him standing in his driveway once or twice. I never had a conversation with him, even though we had something in common. But it struck me to my core.
I have a lot of new writers email me, asking for advice. One piece I almost always offer is that you MUST be thick-skinned and incredibly determined. I don’t mean JUST A LITTLE BIT determined, but willing to do whatever it takes, and never believe that you will not make it. But you must also always realize that you still need to improve. ALWAYS. Taking constructive criticism is just as important as having faith in your writing. A wonderful book can always be made better. And yes, everybody needs to hear something good about their work, along with the bad, because even AFTER you publish, between publisher revisions and customer reviews, there is almost always something bad to be found.
And this man did hear something good. Something positive. Somewhere along the way, someone–a publisher, I heard–told this man he was the next John Grisham. This publisher did not DEIGN to publish him, however. But something like that can keep you going. In fact, without little positive bits of feedback, it would be impossible to go on.
But did this publisher make a mistake by telling this man that he was the next John Grisham? Yes, and no. In a business filled with “no thanks,” it is necessary to get a “you are good,” once in a while. That said, how much do you need to keep going? When do you accept you might not hit the right publisher on the right day, with the right project? Can you HANDLE this if it is reality?
Most successful and published writers endured YEARS of rejection before they hit the “big ticket.” And sometimes, even then, the sell wasn’t and isn’t huge, and it takes many more years to build yourself in the business. To live off writing alone is usually a LONG way away from the first sell, and that is just reality. Even those who sold quickly still must work to build up their career and sales.
And speaking of that, the reality of PUBLISHING is, this business is TOUGH, and you have to be tougher than it to survive. And don’t kid yourself, it doesn’t get easier once you FINALLY sell. It seems like unpubbed writers think that all you have to do is MAKE the sell, and then you’ve made it. I’m not trying to rain on the parade of finally getting THE CALL. I remember how good that felt. I do. But stay grounded. Once you get THE CALL, there are just NEW and BIGGER worries to cope with. Things like sell-through, and print run, and deadlines. I had ALL the time in the world to write my books before I got published. That time is gone now. I write on deadlines, and if the story isn’t flowing, it’s a bad thing.
I polled a group of authors, who are all on varying rungs of the publishing ladder, to find out how long it took THEM to get published. Here you have some huge stars, some midlist authors, and those who are just setting out to see their first book (baby) out on the market. There is some great advice here, so it’s worth taking the time to read. I would like to say a HUGE thank you to every author who took the time to answer my questions. I did not ask them all the same questions, as you might have noticed.
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Tess Gerritsen, www.tessgerritsen.com, Most recent book: THE BONE GARDEN
It took me about three years to get published. I wrote three unsold manuscripts before CALL AFTER MIDNIGHT was accepted by Harlequin Intrigue. As for how many rejections, my gosh, I don’t remember. Certainly dozens!
Lisa Gardner, www.lisagardner.com, Most recent book: HIDE
It took me three years to publish. My original manuscript was rejected twice. The second rejection, however, come with a couple of comments and an invitation to resubmit. I made the changes, sent the manuscript back. At that point, the acquisitions editor approved of the manuscript, but it sat for another year on the senior editor’s desk. Ultimately, the senior editor purchased the novel. Then, however, came a 20-page single space revision letter for desired changes. So I joke that I can say I sold by first manuscript, but only the names of the characters remained the same.
Heather Graham, http://www.theheathergraham.com/index.html, Most recent book: THE SEANCE
One piece of advice comes in several parts! First, read, read, read, and then write what you love to read most, and never stop loving to read. Then, of course, write. Make yourself sit down and do it. Whatever you have per day or week, but be disciplined. And then, do research about publishing. I always suggest Writer’s Digest Writer’s Market. Partially, it’s because it’s how I started. And then–because it’s still the best way to know just how many publisher are out there and what they’re doing. Believe in yourself if you’re being teased, believe in yourself no matter what. Take criticism, but keep on believing.
Join a group or lots of groups. Groups are usually made up of really nice people and every person out there knows someone or somthing you don’t. They tend to know what’s going on in publishing. They throw conferences. Conferences are great. Most offer workshops, where what you learn may not work for you, but you take in the good and you let go of what just doesn’t fall into what you need. Conferences offer connections to more people. People are often connected to publishers.
Never stop living. Use the kids, the job, the obnoxious guy in the Suburban ahead of you who keeps changing lanes. They are all grist for the mill. Don’t ignore important things in your life to write–don’t ignore writing for anything that isn’t important. (like cleaning. okay, do some cleaning, but rather than being obsessed, realize that you’re obsessed because you’re not sitting down to write! have you ever seen written on a tombstone ‘he had the best lawn in the world’ or ‘she had the cleanest kitchen?)
I didn’t know a soul when I started, I bought Writer’s Digest Writer’s Market and started sending off. I started with short horror stories, and sold a book about two years into it. At the time, it felt like forever! I did not have an agent. If I could do it again, I might have tried to sell the book on my own, but the second I had an offer, I’d call an agent and never begrudge him/her the fifteen percent on the book I sold myself. Agents know contracts. They are a buffer zone. You want a career, not just a sale.
M.J. Rose, www.mjrose.com, Most recent book: THE REINCARNATIONIST
Complicated answer Natalie. I started writing about ten years before I tried to get an agent. But once I got an agent it took five years for me to get published and we had dozens of rejections over the two years she tried to sell them. I don’t know how many rejections there were – but probably at least a dozen for each book. Although the second book did get a solid offer. We accepted it. The following week the offer was rescinded because the marketing dept at the publishing house insisted. Four years later I self published that second novel online, as an experiment, and five of those dozen publishers turned around and made five figures offers for it.
Jennifer Apodaca, www.jenniferapodaca.com, Most recent book: EXTREMELY HOT
How long did it take you to get published? Eight years. Did you get an agent first? Nope, I sold to a publisher first. I got an agent after I sold four books. I submitted to agents as well, but was rejected. Once I was ready to get an agent as a published author, I had clout to get the agent I thought would best represent me and my career.
How many rejections did you receive before the first yes? I don’t know the exact number. My first four books were rejected everywhere. I sold the fifth completed book. Were these rejections before or after you got an agent? Before.
Deborah LeBlanc www.deborahleblanc.com, Most recent book: MORBID CURIOUSITY
It took about a month to get my agent. I sent out 52 packets of info (query letter and first three chapters) to 52 agents. Out of those 52 I got 10 requests for the full manuscript. (Yes, they asked for an exclusive read, but I didn’t agree or disagree with their request. I just didn’t respond directly to it. I simply sent the manuscript. 
Out of those 10, 5 called to represent me. I interview those 5 and chose the one I have now. (Just picked up a second literary agent BTW.)
After the agent got the book, it was sold within a month.
Karin Tabke, www.karintabke.com, Most recent book: SKIN
How long did it take you to get published? About 4 years
Did you get an agent first? No, I sold a novella first, landed an agent on that
How many rejections did you receive before the first yes? Too many to count. but if I had to guess, I’d say close to 500 (including emails rejections, and the, did-not-reply-because-we-are-still-laughing-so-hard-we-can’t-get-up-off-the-floor-to-lick-a-stamp rejection)
Were these rejections before or after you got an agent? Before. I think I am personally responsible for the death of a forest.
Yasmine Galenorn, www.galenorn.com, Most recent book: THE CHANGELING
How long did it take you to get published?
I’ve been writing since I was 12. My first poem was accepted when I was 15. My first short story was accepted in my 20′s. I sold a few articles between then and my first book contract, which I received at age 36, AFTER dumping seven novels in the closet that didn’t sell and never will sell. The first contract was for a nonfiction book, but I didn’t care. I was thrilled.
Did you get an agent first? Not for the nonfiction, but yes, I got an agent before finally selling my fiction.
How many rejections did you receive before the first yes? Hundreds…maybe 400-500? Maybe more?
Where these rejections before or after you got an agent? Before.
Lastly, if you had one piece of advice to give the unpubbed, what would it be? If you can do anything else but write, then do it because writing is a hard business and there are *no* guarantees. Not everybody is cut out to be a writer. But if you want it bad enough, you won’t quit–even if you have to have a day job in the meantime. You’ll find time to write, even if it’s a couple hours a week. Treat it like a business, and remember: rejection is NOT personal. You have to remain as unbiased as
you can–there’s always room for improvement, even after you’re published, so don’t let your ego rule your heart.
Mary Kennedy www.marykennedy.net, Most recent book: SECRETS OF A SOUTH BEACH PRINCESS
Note: I’ve written 37 middle grade and YA novels and currently am writing YA for Berkley Jam.
How long did it take you to get published? One month. I sent in a full manuscript (pretty clueless, right?) and the editor called me and bought it. I went on to write 24 other books for her.
Did you get an agent first? No.
How many rejections did you receive before the first yes? None
Lastly, if you had one piece of advice to give the unpubbed, what would it be? Think of writing as a sideline. I’ve had terrific “day” jobs, copywriter at a rock radio station, PR director of a travel company, television news writer, and mostly recently, licensed clinical psychologist. Even after 37 books, I never think of writing as my “career.” And I never planned on making a living at it, there are too many variables, too many elements out of my control. I’ve met some wonderful people and had some fun with the books, I think that’s all you can expect.
Kathleen Dante www.kathleendante.com), Most recent book: ENTICED
How long did it take you to get published? From the time I finished my first manuscript to my first sale, six
months; to publication, 18 months.
Did you get an agent first? Yes.
How many rejections did you receive before the first yes? Three or four (depending on whether you count an initial rejection that became a sale)
Were these rejections before or after you got an agent? After.
Lastly, if you had one piece of advice to give the unpubbed, what would it be? Don’t quit your day job unless you have sufficient savings to go the long haul.
Nancy Haddock, www.nancyhaddock.com, Most recent book: LA VIDA VAMPIRE coming April 2008
How long did it take you to get published?
– I joined RWA in Feb. 1984. I sold in Feb. 2007. I spent a lot of time volunteering, and didn’t write as diligently as I wished I had, and I also went back to teaching when my husband was out of work for 3 years. I didn’t stop writing, but did stop aiming for publication on and off, esp. up until my last year of teaching.
Did you get an agent first?
— No. I tried, but no dice. (I did have an agent for many years from the late 1980s to late 1990s, but mutually parted from her.) I was still agent hunting when I got the call.
How many rejections did you receive before the first yes?
– With some 23 years of them, I lost track. At least 20 or more –during those times I was actively submitting. (Before I wrote novels, I wrote teleplays and children’s books. No agent then, but lots of rejections.)
Were these rejections before or after you got an agent?
– With my first agent, before and after. Actually, it’s the same with my new agent. I’ve had one project rejected for the time being with a request for changes.
Lastly, if you had one piece of advice to give the unpubbed, what would
it be?
– Study the biz, know what you’re getting into, know that it can be costly, frustrating — as you said, TOUGH. Then, if you still want to write for publication, persist. Grow, change, improve your craft, keep up with the biz, but persist.
Kylie Brant, www.kyliebrant.com, Most recent book: THE LAST WARRIOR
How long did it take you to get published?
I was one of the lucky ones. It took me two years to get my first sale, selling my second novel first. A few months later the publisher bought my first novel, as well.
Did you get an agent first?
I wrote twenty-two books for Silhouette and contracted for three more before getting an agent. I had a single title project I wanted represented and she did place that with a publisher for me.
How many rejections did you receive before the first yes?
My first novel underwent major surgery about three times Twice it was submitted and received a two page letter from a Silhouette editor listing its strengths and weaknesses and inviting me to revise and resubmit it. It was in-house at Silhouette again after they purchased my second manuscript. Even after buying that first manuscript, it underwent revisions yet third time prior to its release.
Lastly, if you had one piece of advice to give the unpubbed, what would it be?
Don’t give up on your dreams but make sure they are realistic ones. It takes a long time to learn to write well enough to have a polished product, submit it to publishers and sell it. First time authors aren’t usually going to garner a particularly high advance and definitely not one they can live on. In other words, don’t quit your day job until and unless you get to the point when you can count on a decent living from your writing. Remember, you’re giving up benefits, retirement plans, etc. when you are a full-time writer. Writers write, regardless of what their other schedules are. Carve out a time in your days/weeks that is devoted to writing to pursue your dream, but be realistic about the timeline and money involved.
Debra Webb, www.debrawebb.com, Most recent book: TRACELESS
I started actively pursuing publication in February 1996 and I sold my first book in September of 1998! I had 17 rejection letters on four manuscripts before I sold the first one!
Jolie Mathis, www.joliemathis.com, Most recent book: THE SEA KING
It took me 6 years of serious writing before I sold. I had an agent first, who then submitted my mss to a number of publishers. Only one out of the group “bit”. I didn’t have a ton of rejections, because I wrote seriously and intensively for about five years before I ever started making submissions because I knew my writing wasn’t ready yet. So for me, around six publisher rejections (after I got the agent). Before that, I’d submitted to three publishers on my own and received rejections (and realize I wasn’t ready to submit yet, and waited until I had the agent!)
Reality/Advice #1: Realize that even once you make the sale, your advance money is likely to be spread out in payments, over a year or two. So even though you have an advance of, say $5000, you’ll get it piecemeal for the signing/acceptance/publication.
Reality/Advice #2: You may sell one book, and not sell another one for 3 years, five years, ten years. (Personal experience! I sold THE SEA KING in late 2003, and didn’t make another sale until this year. Same agent. So tack … gosh, about 18 rejections onto that 6 number I provided above. Yes! I received more rejections AFTER I got published, than before!)
I know so many aspiring writers who believe once they sell that first book, it’s smooth sailing and enough to live on — and if you try to explain otherwise, they think you are a killjoy.
Terri Farley, www.terrifarley.com, Most recent book: SEVEN TEARS INTO THE SEA
How long did it take you to get published?
About ten years — but the first book didn’t magically turn me into a fulltime writer. Neither did the fourth. But every penny I made from writing was split three ways : one third into each of my kids’ college accounts & one third invested into my fulltime writer fund. I was lucky to have a good job and a husband with one, so I could squirrel that money away and have something to show a financial consultant ; coincidentally, she’d always wanted to be a writer
Did you get an agent first?
No — I grabbed a friend’s agent when I got “the call” and, looking back, I wish I’d done research first, as I did with my second & current agent.
How many rejections did you receive before the first yes?
At least 20 and many were contradictory. Ex: “You needn’t show off your research” and “Doing research would help you to more correctly convey the texture of the times” — same book.
Lastly, if you had one piece of advice to give the unpubbed, what would it be?
Work with a financial consultant (banks & credit unions & labor unions often have free ones) with fulltime writing as a goal. Drag your spouse to the meetings, so there are no surprises when you quit your day job.
Anya Bast, www.anyabast.com, Most recent book: WITCHFIRE
How long did it take you to get published?
Ten years.
Did you get an agent first?
Hmmm…complicated. I had a bad agent and ended up firing her. I sold on my own to ImaJinn Books and Ellora’s Cave without an agent soon thereafter.
Years later, I found a GOOD agent and she sold me on proposal to Berkley within the first couple months of our relationship.
So, yes and no.
How many rejections did you receive before the first yes?
I have a whole file folder filled with them. Many, many rejections.
The best one is simply my query letter returned to me with a big NO stamped on top. It hurt back then but now I think it’s humorous.
Were these rejections before or after you got an agent?
These were all from my first agent, the bad one, or from books I submitted on my own.
The GOOD agent has managed to sell 6 novels and two novellas to Berkley and Harlequin for me. My years of
struggle and rejection are (finally) paying off.
Lastly, if you had one piece of advice to give the unpubbed, what would it be?
You must have perseverance. Perseverance is not a guarantee that you will eventually sell, but without perseverance odds are you won’t.
Writing is not an easy career path. Choose it because you love to write. Don’t choose it because you think
you’re going to make a lot of money. You probably won’t. Choose this path because you love the “work” and, above all, persevere.
If you can keep an image in your mind of who you want to be and work toward making it real, chances are that, (with some stumblings and a few confusions here and there), you’ll succeed.
Rebecca York, www.rebeccayork.com, Most recent book: RETURN OF THE WARRIOR
How long did it take you to get published?
What do you mean, exactly. I sold the first novel I wrote.
Did you get an agent first?
No. I sold the book by myself and got an agent to negotiate the contract.
How many rejections did you receive before the first yes?
I got four rejections. An editor at scholastic held the book for 9 months, then sent me a two-page rejection letter. I was smart enough to know that was a good letter. I did what she asked me to do and sold her the book.
Were these rejections before or after you got an agent?
Before
Lastly, if you had one piece of advice to give the unpubbed, what would it be?
Read in the genre you want to write in. Love the genre you want to write in. Don’t try to write something “just because it’s selling.”
Virginia Kantra, www.virginiakantra.com, Most recent book: HOME BEFORE MIDNIGHT
How long did it take you to get published?
4 years
Did you get an agent first?
No. (My first sales were to Silhouette.)
How many rejections did you receive before the first yes?
3
Were these rejections before or after you got an agent?
Before
Lastly, if you had one piece of advice to give the unpubbed, what would it be?
Writing can’t be all about getting published. You don’t have control over getting published. You have to care about telling your story, about telling your truth. Then, whether you get published or not, whether your career goes up or down or does loop-the-loops, you still have the joy of writing.
Jennifer Ashley, www.jennifersromances.com, Most recent book: IMMORTALS: THE GATHERING
How long did it take you to get published?
Long. I did a two-year stint of writing and submitting and getting rejected (sold a couple short stories for very little money, but no novels).
I took a few years off then, because I got sick and was more interested in living day-to-day life than trying to be a writer.
I got determined again in early 1999 and got published in early 2002 (almost three years to the day). I wrote six or seven manuscripts, every one of which was rejected except the last. Probably because the last one was finally publishable!
Did you get an agent first?
I struggled without an agent for a long time, because agents rejected me too! But I sold a book and piqued an agent’s interest almost at the same time. The book sold because I had submitted it through a contest (it didn’t win or even final in the contest). The agent was interested in an entirely different project (because I’d chalked the book up to a loss). Suddenly I was sold and agented at the same time, and multipublished by the end of the year.
But it sure took a long time, a lot of energy, a lot of work, and a lot of rejection to get there.
How many rejections did you receive before the first yes?
I lost count! As I said, six mss., only three of which I actually submitted. Had nibbles but lots of no’s. So multiply lots of no’s by three. Then there were all the short story rejections, which were numerous, and then all the agent rejections!
Were these rejections before or after you got an agent?
Most of the rejections were before I had my agent. After that, there were still rejections, because the editors didn’t leap out slavering after my books, but my agent sold me again fairly quickly. My agent kept all the rejections, so I didn’t have to see them any more, which was fine with me!
Lastly, if you had one piece of advice to give the unpubbed, what would it be?
My one piece of advice is–PERSIST. It is less a measure of talent than what I call sheer cussedness that gets you published and lets you stay there. I don’t mean you should batter editors over the head with mediocre manuscripts until they issue a restraining order, I mean keep writing and learning and getting better, and keep submitting, and let the rejection make you determined to do even better, until they *can’t* reject you any more!
I kept a secret diary for myself the last six months before I got published, when I’d just quit my job to write full time (what was I thinking!!) It’s at http://diaryofamadwriter.blogspot.com/ if it would help your readers.
Julia Ross, www.juliaross.net, Most recent book: CLANDESTINE
Q: How long did it take you to get published?
A: I sold my first Regency in 1993 as soon as an editor dug it out of the slush pile, about four months after I’d finished it.
Q: Did you get an agent first?
A: No — but that was then.
Q: How many rejections did you receive before the first yes?
A: One. Six years earlier I’d sent off a synopsis and three chapters for a long, complicated historical romance — my first attempt at fiction. An editor phoned to ask for the whole ms. I had to tell her (much to her consternation) that I hadn’t written the rest yet (didn’t know any better). After I scrambled to finish it, she sent me a detailed rejection letter — the book didn’t quite fit their line — though she also asked to see more. I blush to admit this now, but (partly because she’d also attached a handwritten personal note) I thought she was just being nice (didn’t know any better about that, either
Q: Were these rejections before or after you got an agent?
A: Before
Q: Lastly, if you had one piece of advice to give the unpubbed, what would it be?
A: I hesitate to give advice, but FWIW: I know it’s hard to believe, but it’s really not about getting published, it really is about the writing. It’s just as hard to stay published as to get published, and even harder to build and maintain a career, year in, year
out. Publishing is a random, crazy business, so please never, never let it make you truly, deeply unhappy. Whether published or not, all you’ll ever really have is the writing itself, so let the publishing chips fall where they may, because they’re going to do that anyway.
Donna MacMeans, www.donnamacmeans.com, Most recent book: THE EDUCATION OF MRS. BRIMLEY
How long did it take you to get published?
It took me ten years and three complete manuscripts to publish a full novel. I did have a short story published in a small press paranormal romance anthology about five years in. The story earned me a total of $50 in royalties but the validation that it brought at that point in my life was worth far more than any amount of royalty. It kept me in the game for another five years. It also taught me that I could write something other than the contemporary romantic suspenses that I’d been working on.
Did you get an agent first?
I received an offer from a publisher before I signed an agent who parlayed the offer into an auction. So my securing an agent and publisher were almost simultaneous.
How many rejections did you receive before the first yes?
A lot!!! Too many to count. I received rejections from agents that said “great story with promise. Too bad it’s an historical.” What do you do with that? I received a rejection from an editor right before heading to National in Atlanta that had me in tears. That was a first, but to me it was like handwriting on the wall proclaiming that I just didn’t have what it takes. I went to Atlanta in a bit of a depression. Then I won the Golden Heart for that very manuscript and sold it in the following month. Sometimes you slide into the deepest valley before being catapulted to the mountain top.
Were these rejections before or after you got an agent?
All my rejections came before my agent, but my agent wasn’t responsible for my sale.
Lastly, if you had one piece of advice to give the unpubbed, what would it be?
You can’t sell if you don’t submit. Celebrate the rejections because it shows you’re on the road to a sale. I belong to a goal setting group that requires you pay $5 if you don’t reach your goal. My goal included a set number of submissions. In order to avoid paying $5, I sent off a partial to an agency that, from my market research, I knew had sold historical debuts. That’s the firm that ultimately represented me in the auction. I’m not sure if things would fallen in place as well as they did if I hadn’t mailed that submission to avoid a $5 penalty. Kismet.
BTW – my debut was picked up by Rhapsody bookclub and selected as one of their top picks for October. Mrs. Brimley is doing extremely well, which makes you wonder why I received so many rejections. I think there’s a large measure of luck and timing that goes along with every sale.
Alina Adams, www.alinaadams.com, Most recent book: SKATE CRIME
How long did it take you to get published?
I’d been writing novels since I was 12, sent my first one out to publishers at 17, and got my first one accepted for publishing (obviously, not the one I wrote when I was 17) at 23. (Though it didn’t hit the shelves until I was 25). It was a Regency romance for AVON, for a line that was closed right after they published my second book a year later.
Did you get an agent first?
No. But this was in 1994 and things were different then. I think editors still read slush. In fact, my first book, was the first one my editor — then an assistant — got to pick out of slush and edit herself.
How many rejections did you receive before the first yes?
Oh, I have no idea. I sent out about eight completed novels at that point, let’s say each one got at least 20 rejections…
Were these rejections before or after you got an agent?
These were before. And then I got plenty, plenty after. The only difference was, after I got an agent, the rejections came on partials instead of full manuscripts.
Lastly, if you had one piece of advice to give the unpubbed, what would it be?
This is very controversial, but I tell everyone it, so here goes: There is good writing, and there is writing that sells, and sometimes they are not the same thing. If your goal is to write manuscripts you’re happy with, then don’t think about publishing as anything but a by-product. But if your goal is to get published, then research what’s being published and write like that — whether you think it’s good or not.
Geri Buckley, www.geribuckley.com, Most recent book: HOT TICKET
How long did it take you to get published?
For general fiction short stories, it took three years. Novels took eight years.
Did you get an agent first?
No. I wanted some writing credits first to bring to the table.
How many rejections did you receive before the first yes?
Around 80.
Were these rejections before or after you got an agent?
Before. I had pubbed a couple dozen gen fic short stories and three novels before I signed with an agent.
Lastly, if you had one piece of advice to give the unpubbed, what would it be?
Keep writing and keep submitting. You’ll never get published if you don’t learn the art and craft of writing. And you’ll definitely never get published if you give up. A competent writer’s secret for getting published is simply the ability to hang in there for one more submission.
Natalie R. Collins was born in Logan, Utah and attended the University of Utah. She worked for eleven years at The Salt Lake Tribune, Utah's largest daily newspaper, before leaving to devote more time to her family. During the ensuing years, she wrote five novels. She also worked for the 2001 and 2002 Sundance Film Festivals as an editor. Natalie is a member of the International Thriller Writers, Mystery Writers of America, and Romance Writers of America.
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Terrific post, Nat. Sheds a lot of light on the hard road of this business. Aside from the time it takes to get published, you also have to consider what it takes to STAY published. Argg…
by Deb November 13th, 2007 at 6:20 amGREAT advice from some fabulous writers, Natalie!
I am saddened that someone committed suicide–for any reason. I’m sure there were a lot of reasons aside from the writing–like his personality or a deep depression–but it probably had something to do with it. Rejection is hard. It’s not fun. I had over 100 rejections before I got an agent and four unsold manuscripts. I never once, not in a million years, contemplated suicide for that or any other reason. No problem is unfixable, or at least unbearable even if at that moment in time it seems like the end of the world.
by Allison November 13th, 2007 at 6:22 amReally great post. It was really interesting to read. It’s amazing how much authors have to go through, but still we all chug away and hope for that one day you see your name in lights – or on the cover of a published book. Sad about the neighbor. My first thought was for that wife because as much as you tell her he obviously had other problems to do something so crazy, I know I’d feel horrible feeling like I pushed him over the edge. Now back to my day job ; )
by Nichole November 13th, 2007 at 7:17 amI’m not a writer and don’t aspire to be one, but if I did, I don’t know that I would have the strength to persevere in this tough market.
The story of the man who committed suicide was touching. Reminded me of other stories i’ve heard or films I’ve seen about someone who loses his job but doesn’t tell his family. He just keeps up appearances, living on savings until one day he is found out then does away with himself. In any event, it is sad to discover someone so depressed they can’t see their way clear to continue on life’s path.
by Karen H in NC November 13th, 2007 at 7:40 amCongratulations on making the IMBA list, Natalie! Jenny totally rocks!
That suicide story is very sad, and I feel very sorry for the wife. We are responsible for our OWN dreams, not everyone else’s. What a sad sitation.
Great info on the different paths to publishing! Staying published is a bigger challenge, but for me, all the years of being rejected taught me some skills that help with staying published (so far).
by Jen November 13th, 2007 at 8:20 amNatalie, this is brilliantly done!
You have both addressed the hard facts of the publishing business, and written a tribute to a man none of us knew yet can all grieve. Personality, depression, and other issues aside, it’s tragic to end one’s life for any reason.
by Nancy Haddock November 13th, 2007 at 8:33 amDeb, you nailed it. STAYING published is really, really dififcult, and the trials don’t end once you sell. I feel like there are too many unpubbed writers who don’t understand that.
Allison, you are right about the man. There had to be other things that were eating at him. Other pieces of his personality that led him to this, but what is his wife left with? The memory she told him he needed a “real job” and he killed himself over it. Sad.
Nichole, yes, that was my thought. What about his poor wife? My parents are going to the funeral today, and I expect I’ll hear more about the situation, but MAN. She must be going through some major trauma right now.
Karen H, yes, I think the story does affect me that way, too. You just can’t know what someone is feeling inside. Suicide means NOBODY wins. Everybody (left alive) is left asking “why?” and there isn’t an answer.
Jen, thanks for the congrats! I almost felt guilty throwing that in, but then I realized it really DID fit in with what I was talking about. It’s the UP side. It just doesn’t last long.
by Natalie November 13th, 2007 at 8:36 amHi Nancy, thanks for participating! Your answers were great, and I really appreciate you taking the time!
by Natalie November 13th, 2007 at 8:38 amThank you, Natalie. What a lot of work to put together. Us unpubbed love to read this sort of thing.
by Kendra November 13th, 2007 at 8:47 amGreat post Natalie, informative, hopeful, and insightful. Something this post shows (and the replies you posted for so many authors,) is how supportive writers are of each other, each gave truthful answers aimed to help the next writer, not to discourage them, but to urge them on armed with the facts.
by Cele November 13th, 2007 at 9:07 amWow! Lots of great authors listed there! I didn’t know that once you sell a book, you still need to ”sell” future books. I guess I always assumed that once you are signed with a publishing company, they publish what you write. I mean, I did realize that they might not like the writer’s future books but I just assumed they would tell them to change this or that, not that they wouldn’t buy the next book!
Natalie congrats on making the list!
Great post and very interesting.
I feel bad for the wife to the man who commited suicide. She must feel horribly responsible since she had that discussion with him before he killed himself. So sad.
by RachaelfromNJ November 13th, 2007 at 9:10 amNatalie–Wow, thank you so much for this and to all the authors who responded to your questions! It’s very inspirational to read about the many different paths to publication.This was a great way to start the day.
by MF Makichen November 13th, 2007 at 9:23 amCongratulations on the IMBA list, Natalie!!
Fabulous information in this post. I do love reading about authors’ publishing journeys. I’ve finally reached the point where I realize it’s about persistence and that I’ll be needing alligator skin for the rejections. I wish I’d known it years ago when I let the rejections make me choose to do something different for a while. I was convinced I just didn’t have what it took to be a published writer. Duh.
Very sad about your parents’ neighbor. Like others have said, he had to have more things going on. But his poor wife, knowing she gave him an ultimatum. Makes me think of John Kennedy Toole. He wrote a book, tried to get it published, got rejected, and spiraled into drinking and drugs. Then he committed suicide at the age of 31. His mother found the manuscript, took it to a well-known local writer, insisted he read it, and he fell in love with it. It was published 11 years after Toole’s death and won a Pulitzer. Obviously, that’s the exception.
This is one of the many reasons I am thankful for RWA. We have a great network of support and encouragement. And, with the Internet, we have information like this that shows persistence, luck, and talent are all factors in getting published. No one in RWA goes it alone. (I’m only a member of RWA, so can’t speak for the other organizations.) I wonder if that man had a support group, or if he was sitting in his house silently dying with every rejection and every setback.
by Lynn Raye Harris November 13th, 2007 at 9:39 amCongrats on the bestseller list! That must be a wonderful feeling. I feel horrible for the family of your mother’s neighbor. I’m probably better off not writing because I don’t think my skin is thick enough for all the rejection from publishers and the impatience of friends and family members.
by Erin Hunter November 13th, 2007 at 10:04 amInteresting to read about the authors and how much is involved in just getting a book out for the readers.
by JOYE November 13th, 2007 at 10:24 amNatalie, fantastic news about the IMBA list–congratulations!
But wow, what a gut-punch entry. It’s so sad for the man’s wife. I can understand if someone quit after that sort of ultimatum and maybe resented the wife or maybe was angry, but for there to be such a violent reaction, there was definitely some deep depression and other issues going on.
Great advice from so many wonderful writers, though. And it’s nice to see how different all our roads have been to the same goal. Just goes to prove you just never know how you’re going to get there.
by toni mcgee causey November 13th, 2007 at 10:38 amHi Kendra, I’m so glad you got something out of it. It was a HUGE amount of work, but I really felt like I NEEDED to do it.
Cele, Karin calls it “giving something back,” and she does it all the time with her “first line” contests. I realized that she’s right. I think I’ve done it with my agent listing (but not without the incredible work of Cele, btw, all.) I think other people do this with writing contests, like all the RWA writing contests.
Hi RachaelfromNJ, I know that I had a lot of the same misconceptions before I sold a book, so I really wanted to get the word out there. The work does NOT end once you sell, and if anything, it’s even MORE difficult. Yes, there are perks. But it’s a WHOLE lot more work. And thanks for the congrats!!
MF, I’m so glad you got something positive out of it.
Lynn, thanks for the congrats!! And I think networking is a big key in keeping authors grounded. And having something to talk to when things are sucky helps, too. Someone, like another writer, who understands.
Erin, thanks for the congrats. And it sounds like you are NOT a glutton for punishment, like the rest of us….
Joye, hope you enjoyed it!
by Natalie November 13th, 2007 at 10:47 amHi Toni,
Thanks for the congrats. And yes, it was definitely a “gut punch.” Even though I didn’t know him, it still affected me. I also agree he had other issues, but the WRITING issue is what his wife will forever remember, and I so feel for her.
by Natalie November 13th, 2007 at 10:54 amI think these stories to publication are wonderful. It shows where a writer’s perserverance pays off.
by Wanda H November 13th, 2007 at 11:08 amCongrats Natalie, on making the IMBA list! That’s a great one to be on.
What a great blog. I loved reading how different authors got published. It was three and a half years for me to sell my first book. But the second book – a completely different kind of novel – was turned down. That was the *first* time I got thrown off the carousel. It is true that *staying* published is just as hard—and sometimes harder—than getting published. Regarding rejections, I stopped counting at 150.
Nat, I’m so sorry about your neighbor. And so very sorry for his wife.
Writers really have to have thick skin and the willingness to fall on their faces. And no matter what, it’s never, ever going to be ideal. The highs – like the IMBA Bestseller List – are wonderful when you get them, so you enjoy them for all their worth. Then you get a one-star amazon review and disappointing numbers and all of a sudden the ride’s not so great. So you have to believe in what you’re doing and love the writing more than anything else. It really is about the journey. Resilience is so important.
Lynn, your story about the writer who killed himself struck a chord with me so I Googled it. Toole wrote A CONFEDERACY OF DUNCES. If the poor guy had hung on a little longer, who knows what could have happened?
by J. Carson Black November 13th, 2007 at 11:15 amCongrats again on the IMBA list!
by Karin November 13th, 2007 at 11:19 amAnd congrats on the blog today. Good stuff.
In my case, it was four years and four manuscripts. I never counted up the rejections but I can tell you this much: there have been WAY more since selling my book than there was before. An agent can get you into more houses, more foreign markets, more film production companies. thus, more rejections.
With this neighbor of your parents, the part that made me saddest is the false idea that he could have a “real” job OR he could have a writing career.
WRONG. Most people I know had a real job before they had a writing career, and continue to have a real job, OUTSIDE of their wriitng career, along with their writing career. the starving artist route is a myth. Writers write while holding down whatever other jobs they need to, if necessary.
by Diana November 13th, 2007 at 11:31 amI’m saddened to read about the suicide, but so inspired by all the fabulous journey’s to publication. You’re so right, selling is only the tip of the iceburg. Staying sold… successfully, now there’s a challenge LOL.
by Tawny November 13th, 2007 at 11:42 amThis is a brilliant posting, Natalie. Thanks so much for doing the work and sharing the man’s story. I feel for that man, having to making the choice he did. I was in the very same position for years, leaving a perfectly good large paycheck to tackle thriller novels full-time. My wife also worked full-time, by choice, and was completely supportive of my desire–no matter how long it took. I can’t imagine what it would have been like if she had said after two years, or three, or five, “Look, Buster, get your ass to a real job and start bringing in money again or else!” A tough, tough call–have your honey hate and possibly leave you, or abandon what you want to do most. Again, I bless my lucky stars my wife was so damn supportive.
It did take years, as it turned out. But it also did pay off–my debut last year (Blown Away) was a national bestseller with four translations and RT’s Debut Mystery of the Year, and the new one (Cut to the Bone) is rockin’ and rollin’.
On another point, I simply could not have worked a day job while writing on the side. Both things take way too much time and energy to do well, and I wouldn’t sleep nights knowing I wasn’t putting my all into both. Couldn’t do both physically or mentally, so I had to choose one. I’m glad I went this route.
by Shane Gericke November 13th, 2007 at 11:47 amYes, A CONFEDERACY OF DUNCES. Usually on the top 100 lists of all time, top lists of the century, decade, whatever. What else did he have in that head, you know? He could have been like Harper Lee, only one great timeless story, or he could have had a long and amazing career.
by Lynn Raye Harris November 13th, 2007 at 11:54 amCongrats on making the IMBA Best Sellers list.
by Joyce November 13th, 2007 at 12:03 pmCongrats, Natalie! That’s great news.
I am fortunate or unfortunate, dependening on the day I’ve had, to be a stay-at-home mom. My dream is to be published one day. Hopefully, more than once. I think it’s extremely important for everyone to have a dream to reach for. I know that in reality my dream may not come true, but I don’t stand a chance if I don’t keep trying. I’m not willing to give up.
Thanks for the inspiration, ladies.
I feel sad that he made the choice that he did.
by Holly Dennler November 13th, 2007 at 12:07 pmI’m not an aspiring writer but I appreciate all the hard work that goes into becoming published. I try to take time to send feedback and thank the writers after I finish their book. I know a lot goes into a book and I like them to know it is appreciated.
A.
by Ann M. November 13th, 2007 at 12:10 pmNatalie, this is a MUST read for every aspiring writer who thinks that after getting “the call” that life will be an easy ride. Thank you for taking the time to gather all of this and thank you to all my fellow writers who took the time to respond.
Felicia Donovan
by Felicia Donovan November 13th, 2007 at 12:50 pmTHE BLACK WIDOW AGENCY Series
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Wow. So sorry to hear about your neighbor. Thanks for posting this. I should be working but instead I’m reading about writing.
by Michelle November 13th, 2007 at 12:50 pmWanda, thanks so much. It really DOES show that a writer’s perseverance can pay off, but also spotlights that once you sell, the job is just starting.
Jake, Thanks for the congrats! I, too, enjoyed reading all the experiences in getting published. And thanks for sharing yours! I also was intrigued by Lynn’s story. Fascinating.
Karin, many thanks for the congrats. And I hope I didn’t overwhelm anyone. It was a lot of information.
Diana, Thanks for sharing your story, and your advice. You are so right.
Tawny, I’m glad people are getting that message. And you are right, what a challenge it is to STAY published. That’s something that is hard to communicate.
Shane, your books are doing FABULOUSLY! And thanks for sharing your own experience, with a VERY different outcome!
Lynn, it makes me really sad to wonder what COULD have happened for this guy, if he had just not given into the depression gremlins.
Joyce, thanks for the congrats!!
Holly, it sounds like you have EXACTLY the outlook that you need. You will write, you will keep writing, but you won’t let it destroy you.
Ann, what you do is INVALUABLE to authors, and we really appreciate it.
Felicia, thanks for the kind words. I agree that the advice given here is SO good.
Michelle? We’re GLAD you’re reading!!!! LOL.
by Natalie November 13th, 2007 at 1:46 pmI linked to this from my LJ at http://shalanna.livejournal.com and added a few thoughts of my own. Feeling sad today for the widow, a woman who didn’t mean to say it as harshly as she said it, but she was exhausted and worried and overwhelmed by the bills and the rising gas prices and and and. . . .
The responders here are the lucky ones, and I wish them continued luck. They’ve worked hard. Still, a lot of us have worked hard, and there’s a point at which we need to admit we’re licked and just plain GIVE UP. There’s a time to return to reality and say, “It’s over.” Sure, we keep hearing that all we need is a little persistence.
But I think this business is more of a crapshoot than anyone wants to admit. I see good books fall by the wayside all the time. There are too many books being published, and not enough people who turn to reading for pleasure. . . .
by Shalanna Collins November 13th, 2007 at 1:52 pmNatalie you said, it makes me really sad to wonder what COULD have happened for this guy, if he had just not given into the depression gremlins.
If this anonymous writer truly had clinical depression, and I suspect he did, he did NOT give in!
Overcoming depression is not a matter solely of will. I know I suffered from it for 5 years.
Unless he wrote about it, which he may have, we will never know really why he did this. Though I do recall one day at work in 1982 when something happened (I no longer remember what) and it was almost the end. I wrote this beginning to a poem, “The last straw / Just came crashing / down. …
When one is depressed one is mentally ill. Somewhat crazy. We think crazy. We act crazy. We do things to alleviate the pain.
Sermon over, Lyle
by Lyle Lachmuth - The Unsticking Coach November 13th, 2007 at 2:07 pmSorry, Lyle, but I don’t feel like what I said was wrong. I didn’t mean LITERAL gremlins. I am aware depression is a mental illness, and not the work of little creatures who invade one’s mind.
by Natalie November 13th, 2007 at 2:29 pmI am going to recommend this post as basic reading for writing groups. Really interesting. I hope this post gets printed in some mag and reaches the tips of the outer world.
by Cait London November 13th, 2007 at 2:35 pmThanks, Cait! I think it’s an important thing for ALL unpubbed or small-pubbed writers to know.
by Natalie November 13th, 2007 at 2:47 pmIt’s sad to share with aspiring authors the dirty little secret, that it only gets harder when you finally do get published, because then you have something to live up to. Before that you can spend five years writing a book. You can fiddle with it and fantasize about it and picture that big six-figure deal you read about in Publisher’s Weekly (which you subscribe to because you’re serious, dammit!)
Life is just life, and it’s only shifted to a different plane. I remember naively saying to my agent, “I know I’ll get there!” And she said, “There is no there.” Number One on the NYT Bestseller List? You’re still going to get slammed on amazon. Nothing’s perfect. I think every aspiring writer and every published writer should jog over to Tess Gerritsen’s blog and see just how exciting, glamorous and edifiying the life of a bestselling author is. If that doesn’t humble you, nothing will. She does us all a great service.
Old proverb:
“I tried and tried to get published. Then, one day, It Happened. And then everything went to hell.”
But on a happy note – there’s nothing like holding your published book in your hand for the first time, inhaling that New Book Smell.
by J. Carson Black November 13th, 2007 at 3:00 pmWoW! Very long and interesting post. Thanks for sharing with us this was a great post.
Hugssss
by ReadingIsSoMuchFun November 13th, 2007 at 4:27 pmLindaH
Shalanna, I’m going to share a little secret with you. I almost quit this business RIGHT before I sold WIVES AND SISTERS. I just really didn’t think I would ever make it. Now, of course, I’m glad I didn’t give up, but there were some pretty dark moments. Rejection sucks. When you are writing at what I call a “New York level,” it really is a crapshoot. It’s all about hitting the right editor, on the right day, with the right project.
And it is a personal decision. Can you keep trying? I don’t know. I know that there was more than one day when I didn’t think I could. I guess a lot of people would probably admit to feeling the same. But I’m glad I didn’t give up.
by Natalie November 13th, 2007 at 4:36 pmJAKE, I LOVE this!!! “I remember naively saying to my agent, “I know I’ll get there!” And she said, ‘There is no there.’” Classic!
And I agree about Tess and her blog. She is just so honest and so giving. I admire her greatly.
Shalanna, I went and read your blog, and I just wanted to point out it took me SIX years, to get a New York published book. You made me feel a little sad, and I just want to tell you to KEEP trying. But I know that’s a personal decision. To me, it sounds as though you CAN’T quit. That’s a real writer. Just know you aren’t alone in your dark days.
And Linda H., it was long. Hope you can forgive me… LOL.
by Natalie November 13th, 2007 at 4:45 pmHi Natalie,
by Toni Hingleton November 13th, 2007 at 6:59 pmCongrats on the list.
This is such a great post and something for us unpubbs to think about when we are wallowing in rejections. I plan on reading it for inspiration and whenever I tend to feel sorry for myself.
The man committing suicide is so sad and I feel so bad for his family. As much as I love writing and the stories I need to tell, I could never let it consume me to the point of taking my life. There is so much to live for and I am reminded of that everyday when I look at my hubby and kids…
~Toni
Hi Toni,
Thanks for the congrats. You know, I think it was a good post for those who are pubbed, too. It puts it all back into perspective.
by Natalie November 13th, 2007 at 7:06 pmI loved this post. loved it. I’m chugging toward my college graduation and surviving some rough days high on stress and low on sleep. right now, my happy thought is having time to write after graduation and this post just helps that thought survive. so thank you.
by jessiegirl November 13th, 2007 at 7:45 pmThanks for a wonderful post. Although I’m published I found it really inspirational. It was sad to hear about the man committing suicide. Writing is not an easy path to follow, even once the first contract is obtained. There’s good as well as bad that comes with selling, and I don’t think many aspiring writers realize this. I certainly didn’t! I think determination is just as important as talent when it comes to writing and achieving a balance in life is a must. We need to poke our heads out of the writing cave once in a while and stop to smell the flowers.
by Shelley Munro November 13th, 2007 at 8:14 pmjessiegirl, I remember those days! We’ll be rooting for you
Shelley, I agree with everything you said. I think sometimes we don’t celebrate the highs enough, because we are worried what is around the corner… That’s going to be my goal. Not worrying about the dark corner….
by Natalie November 13th, 2007 at 8:26 pmWow! Great post! Thanks to everyone for sharing. And congrats on the IMBA list.
by Edie November 13th, 2007 at 8:36 pm[...] I visit Murder She Wrote, a blog written by several mystery/romance writers when I remember. I wish they’d set up a RSS feed so I could receive a visual reminder of a new post because they have some interesting stuff. Natalie R. Collins’s post today is full of advice from published writers about writing and the business. I found it really useful even though I’m published. Definitely check it out if you have a minute. [...]
by Shelley Munro Blog » Blog Archive » Writing Business is a Killer November 13th, 2007 at 8:45 pmHi Edie,
Thanks for the congrats and kind words!
by Natalie November 13th, 2007 at 9:32 pmThanks for the great post with all the interesting information.
by Maureen November 14th, 2007 at 11:11 amI enjoyed reading this post! I think anyone trying to get published should have a day job and should keep that job after they get published, at least until they know they can make enough to live on with their writing.
by Carol M November 14th, 2007 at 12:42 pmCongratulations on Tapped Out being listed in IMBA.
by Dru November 14th, 2007 at 4:34 pmMaureen, you are welcome.
Carol, You are absolutely right!
And Dru, thank you! I’m very excited.
by Natalie November 14th, 2007 at 8:59 pmNatalie, that is fabulous news about making the IMBA list for TAPPED OUT. You did a wonderful job researching and writing this terrific blog about the death of the aspiring writer. Very sad story, really touching. So glad you tackled it, it must have been difficult for you to write. mary
by Mary Kennedy November 16th, 2007 at 12:46 pm[...] Read the rest of this great post here [...]
by baby names » Blog Archive » The Writing Business is a Killer: Advice from the Trenches November 18th, 2007 at 6:43 am