 | 16 Oct 06 |
Violence has obviously permeated our culture. It’s everywhere. We seem to have become a Society of Violence.
A friend was telling me about a TV show she likes about a serial killer who apparently only kills other serial killers. That’s the hero—a serial killer. I haven’t watched the show, but as I understand it, the premise is that the serial killer hero was born with some kind of problem that drives him to kill. He knows it, so he puts his “skills” to good use.
Well, interesting, sure. I have a problem with it because I have researched serial killers and they are generally are very damaged sociopath personalities that DON’T HAVE A CONSCIENCE OR EMPATHY. Therefore the idea of a serial killer putting his skills to use for “good” just doesn’t work for me. (On the other hand–I love the show HOUSE featuring an emotionally damanged, possibly slightly insane, doctor. )
Okay back to my point. Violence is everywhere. Certainly violence is all over the news, and sadly on our streets. It’s in the video games that capture our children’s attention for hours and hours. I’ve raised three boys so I’ve seen the games and I kept up on what my kids were interested in. I made darn sure their lives were filled with other interests and responsibilities so that they weren’t consumed by a violent video game.
All my sons have talked about how the parents they know seem to freak out about even a suggestion of sex in books/games/movies/magazines etc., but barely blink at violence. I don’t know, what does this say about our society? Why are we so much more afraid of sex than violence? I talked to my kids about both, as well as hundreds of other things.
Violence, of course, is in books, particularly mystery, suspense and thriller books that we all write. Different levels to be sure, but violence is there. And I wonder—are we part of the problem or are we simply reflecting the problem in our books?
I just read a cop blog where the cop was angrily disgusted with “entertainment” that glorifies the drug culture. I’m stand firmly on the side of the cop’s opinion. I don’t want my books to be a part of that problem. I would put the drug culture in my books if the story called for it, but I would put what I perceive as the truth in my books. I’d show the drug culture for what it is—pure ugliness of human waste. If I were to glorify anything, it would be the person who escaped that life, found the strength to get out and make a life for themselves. That would be a hero I could respect, not someone who lives the drug culture life.
(By the way, cops who pull people out, or save teens and early twenty year olds from getting in too deep, are unsung heroes every single day.)
Same with violence—in my books I hope I show the consequences of violence, the pain of the victims and their loved ones as well as the fallout for those who commit the violence. I think that’s being honest and responsible.
What do you all think?
© 2006 – 2009, Jennifer Lyon. All rights reserved.
Award winning author, Jennifer Lyon, always wanted to be a witch. Since her witch-powers never materialized, she went onto Plan B and now she creates magic in her books. In her new series, the author of the acclaimed Samantha Shaw Mystery Series (written as Jennifer Apodaca) introduces the Witch Hunters, legendary men who must overcome a curse to team up with witches and fight evil.
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Jen, I am bothered by extreme, gratuitous violence. And from what I hear from publishers, they want MORE, not less. Perhaps it’s come to the point where people need more and more sensations to feel anything?
Crime novels to me have always been a setting for exploring issues and people. How people deal with a crime against them, or how bad relationships can degerate into criminal acts. I have written sociopaths in my books, but sociopaths (as my cop friend pointed out) are actually boring. They are truly a case of arrested development. They never get past a certain point, never mature, and everything is subservient to what they want. No remorse, and a dull inner landscape that has no room for love, or even pain or fear. There’s not that much to them. I wouldn’t want to be a sociopath; what a pathetic, trivial life to live.
But I am interested in how other people are affected by sociopaths.
Crime is life-changing. I like to see how it changes dynamics in families, in people. I always think of what John Walsh would have done with his life if his son hadn’t been killed.
I usually deal with people after they are dead, at crime scenes. I am not into torturing somebody on the page. Maybe I’m pulling my punches, maybe i’m not going all the way, but I can sleep at night.
I don’t flinch from gruesome crimes, but I am also not planning on turning peoples’ stomachs just for the fun of it.
by J. Carson Black October 16th, 2006 at 5:38 amBoy, good, and very tough question, Jen. Our children are being raised on a steady diet of violence, via video games. To me, this is one of the biggest examples of the way we DON’T protect our children. I have never allowed the popular video game machines in my house. Everyone else had Nintendo, and Playstation, and whatever other ones there are, but I never allowed them. I also don’t have cable television.
That’s not to say my kids don’t get exposed to it, because they DO. I can’t totally keep it away from them. And the older they get, the more they are exposed to it, little by little.
But I just didn’t think I should be the one handing them the gun.
That said, I write suspense, and mystery, and there is usually a little or a lot of violence in both.
The second book I ever wrote is rather gruesome. I was thrilled to sell it last year, and it’s coming out in October ’07, and I spent some time teasing Jen that I was going to write it under the pen name, Jennifer Apodaca, because it was pretty brutal. I wasn’t sure I wanted anyone knowing I wrote it.
There was a REASON behind the brutality, of course, and I was exploring what to me was a fascinating subject. “What makes a (very rare) female serial killer?”
But I winced a lot as I read it. I doubt I’ll go back down that road again.
So how do I say “no violence”–when I won’t let my kids see it or be exposed to it, at least as much as I can control?–and yet write about it?
I guess it comes down to reality. While I have spared my children from a lot, especially when they were younger, the older they get, the more we deal in reality.
My oldest daughter has a friend who was sexually abused last year. We have watched this child go from a happy, cheerful, funny, goofy teenage girl, to a dark, promiscuous, haunted, goth teenager with lots of demons at her back. And we both know why.
We’ve talked about it. Her friend talked to her. It’s reality, it happened. We can’t pretend it didn’t, and we can’t turn our back on the friend, even though it is hard to watch what she has become.
And that’s what I’m fighting when I write. Those demons. The ones that steal souls, and promising lives, and turn happy-go-lucky children into thiefs, whores, and drug abusers. There is good and bad in every life. The story of how someone gets where they are, whether good or bad, is always fascinating.
And the more we tell it, the more we see it, the more we can recognize it, and maybe stop it.
And that’s my soapbox rant for today.
by Natalie October 16th, 2006 at 6:56 amJake, very thoughtful reply! I don’t think you’re pulling your punches by dealing with a dead body and not the real time murder. Your hero/heroines come in AFTER the murder, and reconstruct what happened. That’s being true to your story.
Gratuitous violence is bad enough, but now we have entertainment that makes violence the GOAL. There’s rewards for violence, not consequences.
by Jen October 16th, 2006 at 6:59 amWell said, Nat. I feel for that poor girl.
by J. Carson Black October 16th, 2006 at 7:00 amI think gratuitous violence has a place in fiction – only so much impact comes from showing what it can do to victims. I think it’s equally important to show how it becomes glorified, WHY kids enjoy violent video games. What kind of stressors are they living under that makes them think the drug culture is better?
Watching my toddler, I can see how attractive violence is – it helps you express intense emotions that you can’t otherwise express, because you don’t have the ability to do so. So much is to blame for this: parents who are too busy to take the time to teach their kids to use words, school systems (and governments) that overvalue academics at the expense of arts. And, yes, society/advertising/”the machine,” but this IMO is incidental to the other two – the strongest influences on our kids’ lives.
Personally I write violent material to expel the demons, but I wonder what I would be doing with them if I didn’t have writing or another outlet?
by Christa October 16th, 2006 at 7:25 amOh Natalie, I feel so bad for that poor girl! Your reply is so dead-on. We protect our children from the dangers of sodas in school but not sexual predators. But it’s more than that–one of my kids knew TWO young men who killed themselves this summer. Both using a gun. Both were drinking. My son isn’t involved in that life, but at one time, neither were these young men. So what happened?
I think we must give our kids knowledge at age appropriate levels just as you are doing, Natalie. Your girls are lucky to have you!
by Jen October 16th, 2006 at 7:33 amChrista, wow you made some interesting points. Expelling demons by writing is a powerful tool. Are we giving our kids these tools? Interesting. I really like your question: “What kind of stressors are they living under that makes them think the drug culture is better?” I don’t think we know the answer but we sure as heck should be looking for it.
by Jen October 16th, 2006 at 7:36 amTo me gratuitous violence is as bad a gratuitous sex, a sell out by both the publishing business and the writer that caves in to pressure. Every generation becomes desensitized to something. My generation became desensitized to sex, my daughter’s generation to violence it seems, and it’s my generation that is helping that reality along. And the one inbetween to drugs…almost.
I applaud writers, film makers, and producers who remain true to the story and add only what is germane to make their story richer and true. Not adding a plot around the violence, the sex, the drugs.
In Jake’s book Dark Side of the Moon her murder was driven by anger and resentment, not by the desire to commit the crime itself. To the point even he couldn’t watch. I appreciated the insight.
by Cele October 16th, 2006 at 7:40 amI think we have become a country dangerously desensitized by violence. This point was driven home to me this past weekend when my husband and I emerged from seeing “Departed,” a Scoresese film. It is an excellent film, but (no surprise given the director) extremely violent. So as we are walking out of the movie my husband and I saw not less than three kids UNDER 10–one was probably about 7. I have to say, it angered me to the point of saying something to my husband in a not-so-soft tone. What could possess a parent to take their young children to a movie like that? If its that hard to get a babysitter, stay home. I have a 9 and 7 year old, so I know all the arguments about video games, etc. But it is not the same. Nor do I think the “It’s just a movie” response holds any weight. What will these kids have seen by the time they reach their teens?
by Monica M. October 16th, 2006 at 8:19 amthanks, Cele! Can I take you on the road with me?
by J. Carson Black October 16th, 2006 at 8:26 amIf you haven’t watched DEXTER, I highly recommend it. The basic premise is that when the main character was adopted he was clearly already messed up and his adoptive father (a cop) did what he could to channel the boy’s urges/needs. It’s pretty interesting.
The thing that always blows me away is that violence is totally ok in our entertainment but you flash a nipple and the world ends.
by Kalen Hughes October 16th, 2006 at 8:52 amMaybe because I was the start of the video game generation I don’t understand the worry about them. If millions of kids are playing with them and a hundred are doing evil, dangerous, deadly things; how can we blame the games?
by Amanda October 16th, 2006 at 10:09 amCele, good points. Publishers are a business and they will sell what people buy. We consumers are just as much to blame.
Monica, I see the same thing you do–young kids at inappropriate films. Even worse in my opinion, a parent of my oldest son would buy the teenagers tickets to these films without our permission. I found out when I picked my son up and asked how the movie was–he caved immediately and told me they had seen a different movie than I agreed to, and another kids parents bought the tickets to get them in. It’s one thing for a parent to decide something for their own kid, but not other people’s kids!
Kalen, my friend loves DEXTER too. I’m sure if I saw I’d have a different opinion!
Amanda, from what I’ve seen, it’s the kids who are troubled to begin with who get caught up in the violence of the games. The problem, of course, is those particular kids often don’t have the type of parents keeping an eye on their troubled kid. I don’t know the solution. I’m not blaming the game as much as commenting of the violence that has become the accepted norm in our entertainment.
by Jen October 16th, 2006 at 10:49 am“My oldest daughter has a friend who was sexually abused last year. We have watched this child go from a happy, cheerful, funny, goofy teenage girl, to a dark, promiscuous, haunted, goth teenager with lots of demons at her back. And we both know why.”
I’m very uncomfortable with this generality. I was goth. My sister is goth. My brother is goth. None of us were abused. None of us is troubled. It bothers me to see “goth” used as shorthand for F-ed up. As though the two things are related or inseparable. As though all happy kids are preppy.
In my experience the preppy kids were the truly troubled ones. The ones using tons of drugs in high school (and they were the dealers, too!). They were the ones crashing their cars, driving drunk, flunking out, having abortions, etc. The goth kids just wanted to get through the day without getting the crap kicked out of them by the so-called normal kids.
by Kalen Hughes October 16th, 2006 at 11:25 amKalen, you are right about using ‘goth’ as a generality, but one sign of a troubled teen is an abrupt 180 turn into something you were not before. Teens of all styles and lifestyles can be ‘messed up’, not just those with a certain clothing choice.
by Amanda October 16th, 2006 at 11:52 amTrue, Goth in itself is fine, like punk before it and hippie before that. I think promiscuous and haunted is more troubling.
So there’s a TV show called Dexter? It’s based on a breakout novel that came out two or three years ago called DARKLY DREAMING DEXTER.
by J. Carson Black October 16th, 2006 at 11:55 amKalen, I was not badmouthing goth. Boy, that’s an awkward sentence.
But that’s just PART of her persona, and it IS what she has become. I never said everyone who is GOTH is abused, or totally messed up. It just happens to be a direction that this child has turned. She’s become very DARK, and dark isn’t always bad, but in her case, it isn’t good. And not because she is goth, but because she has become something she never, ever was before. Dark means she is experimenting with drugs and alcohol. Dark means she is experimenting with sexuality. It’s like a black cloud just surrounds her. She’s just barely 13-years-old.
Goth is just one part of it. I think you need to understand that I did NOT use goth as a condemnation, but rather a description of what she has become, along with a lot of other things.
by Natalie October 16th, 2006 at 12:18 pmExcellent post, Jen. I’ve enjoyed reading everyone’s responses. Desensitization is a big problem. See it enough and there is no shock value. That doesn’t mean you do it, you just shrug instead of gasp. MTV was banned in my house for years. My kids screamed and moaned and groaned about it. Too bad. The violent video games? Especially the ones where they kill cops? BANNED! Are my boys less violent then the next guy? Nope, but they have an outlet. Football. My boys destroy quarter backs and running backs. My oldest son has the nastiest chop block on the west coast (btw, my personal belief is chop blocks should be illegal). I watch my boys get pumped up before games, and take their pent up aggression out on the field. And the really sad part of it all is, I their mother, scream and cheer for them like some roman at the coliseum.
by Karin October 16th, 2006 at 1:09 pmNow, do my boys take their aggression out on others outside of a football stadium? Yes, they do. My kids have been taught to defend themselves. They won’t draw first blood but they will gladly defend themselves or someone being harassed by a bully.
One son is far more aggressive outside of football then the other. They were both raised it the same house, by the same parents. One would love to be an ultimate fighter, but are either of them criminals? Not even close.
Could they do violent torturous crimes? Nope. But they could kill if they felt their own life or the lives of their families were threatened. I could as well, and would. But not gratuitous violence, not torturous violence, no one in my family has the stomach for that.
I think the root of violence is more organic then we may think. Some people are prone to it from birth (whether chemically or chromosomally induced), others learn it, some develop chemical imbalances that trigger violent tendencies, and still others never raise a hand, not even to defend themselves.
But either way you slice it, we do live in a violent society. Violence had become a way to solve problems for many people, and I have to say there have been times when I just wish I could slap the teeth right out of certain people. I don’t. But, I’d really like to, just once…
Hey Jen, everyone has said it much more eloquently than I can but I wanted to add my thanks for posting about such an important and thoughtful subject.
by Kate C. October 16th, 2006 at 2:14 pmKalen, thanks for sharing your goth experience. As writers, we like getting the whole picture.
Karin, I hear you on wanting to slap people, LOL! Man, I’ve had the urge.
Kate, thanks for stopping in! It’s been interesting to hear everyones thoughts on the subject.
by Jen October 16th, 2006 at 2:27 pmWow, the comments on this blog are as interesting as the posts themselves!
I just wanted to pop by and say, if you haven’t read the book, DARKLY DREAMING DEXTER, it’s an amazing experience. It’s the only book that I’ve read in my WHOLE entire life, that made my mouth pop open in shock. It’ll raise the hairs on back of your neck, at the SAME time as you find yourself laughing. It really is one he– of a book. Even if it’s not anything near what you normally read, it’s one of those books to read, just to experience it.
It’s totally not my normal cup of tea, but I was blown away by it.
by spyscribbler October 16th, 2006 at 2:45 pmI have to agree w/Kalen…From a writer’s standpoint Dexter is an amazing show.
As far as violence goes, I don’t hold with sheltering my children, and like Karin’s they play sports and I want them to know how to defend themselves as well as stand up for themselves. I dont want them to start it but I DO want them to be able to finish it. Last year my youngest son got in a fight with his best friend. Kids fight and that’s fine but the kid threatened to kill my son and I had to put a stop to them playing together. It might have been said in anger but it wasn’t just “I’m going to kill you” it was “I’m going home to get a knife and I’m going to kill you.” And yes, the kid apologized but they dont play together anymore.
I dont know if I can add anything better than what Karin said. We can’t protect our children from it and yes it has to be age appropriate. My kids play video games, but they don’t play violent ones (I don’t consider Pokemon violent). My boys are nearly 13 and (nearly) 11 and we watch a lot of CSI and LAO together. I know it’s TV and fiction and probably not completely accurate but if nothing else it’s also gruesome and the kids get an eyefull of dead bodies and they’re learning that dead is dead. I also have the parental controls set on their TV’s
by Cece October 16th, 2006 at 3:36 pmVery good post, Jen. Thought-provoking. It’s not just violence, but sex. Different sides of the same coin. How much is too much? How much can we really shelter our kids? I’ll admit, I shelter my kids more than most parents, but I know that once they get into high school they’ll be in for a bit of a culture shock. Frankly, I’m okay with that. I’m honest with them without putting images in their mind that they’re not ready for. Some parents let their 11, 12, 13 year olds see R movies; I don’t. My oldest (12) is frustrated by this sometimes, but that’s life (at least, that’s what I tell her!)
I don’t glorify the violence in my books. They’re edgy, but not too gritty (IMO). I do believe that it’s crucial for society as a whole to understand how people become killers so that hopefully we can stop some murders in the future. Is that the role of fiction writers? No. But at the same time, I think that we mirror society and people see some truth in our stories.
by Allison October 16th, 2006 at 6:51 pmI don’t feel like I shelter my kids, but like Allison, my 12 & 14-year-old are not allowed to see R-rated movies. And they do have Nintendo Gameboys. I just don’t have a system in my house, and won’t allow the really violent games.
by Natalie October 16th, 2006 at 7:30 pmIt’s funny, I’ve never thought I sheltered my kids, in fact, I haven’t. I’ve sheltered me!I can’t stand those nasty videos,violent games or movies. It wasn’t about them, it was all about Karin.
))
by Karin October 16th, 2006 at 8:04 pmBut I am over protective. When the girls were in high school, no field parties! Not sheltering, coz they know what goes on. I was protecting them from those naughty boys out there.
Yikes! I never meant to imply that anyone sheltered their kids….I don’t want my kids growing up thinking the world is one way and then get a rude awakening when they find out it’s not. And with an ex who’s mantra is “It’s not my fault”, accepting responsiblity (and realizing actions have consequences) is a huge hot button for me. I don’t know if I’m right or if I’m wrong but all any of us can do is the best we can do…….
by Cece October 17th, 2006 at 6:15 amVery interesting topic. I’ve read studies where the results showed people are more violent after watching violent movies. I think so. I remember coming out of The Road Warrior (pretty mild by today’s standards). In the parking lot, a man slammed his door into my car. No apology. Another hit the bumper of the car in front of him. The two men got out of their cars and screamed at each other. Neither car was damaged. I locked my car and sat there until the parking lot was empty before I left. Seemed safer.
Sex and violence. Don’t like the combination. I don’t see sex that way. I don’t understand the American view of sex. In current politics, it’s okay to lie to the American people and take them to a war, kill off nearly 2800 of our troups, maim another 50,000+, kill from 30,000 to 655,000 (depending ong who you believe) innocent Iraqi’s, but sex between two consenting adults is worthy of impeachment.
I used to work in a used book store. Every week I would cull titles that weren’t selling and put them in a box. An employee of the county corrections office would pick out titles for the jail and juvenile hall. She consistently picked out war novels, suspense, action, true crime, mystery, all the stuff that’s filled with violence. No literature and no romance. I finally asked her about it one day. Why true crime, for god’s sake, in a jail? Why no romance? Why not a gentler way of seeing things? She said, and this is as near a quote as I can remember “Romance. I’ve got 135 ‘throbbing members’ over there, why encourage that?” Okay, so it’s all right to encourage the violence but not the sex.
I don’t understand. I really don’t.
Mo
by Maureen October 17th, 2006 at 8:06 am‘Yikes! I never meant to imply that anyone sheltered their kids….’
I didn’t take it like that, Cece, you just got me to thinking. Where I live, there is *a lot* of sheltering going on. When we moved here, hubby and I looked at each other and cringed. The parents around me are raising meely-mouthed ineffective people. People, who when life hits them square in the face are going to cave.
by Karin October 17th, 2006 at 11:40 amYou all have had such thought-provoking replies! Much more interesting than my actual blog. What really encourages me is how much everyone seems to care. Thanks so much, you guys!
by Jen October 17th, 2006 at 12:06 pmCele, I didn’t get that from your post. I was just sort of thinking about my views on parenting as a whole.
I HATE the comment “It’s not my fault” or “It’s not fair.” Drives me batty. Over the summer I made my kids pay me every time they said “It’s not fair.”
I just want kids to be KIDS for as long as they can to build the emotional foundation so that, hopefully, when they get into high school they’ll make the right choices. I don’t know if anyone has seen the movie FREAKY FRIDAY (the new version with Jamie Lee Curtis) but it’s great. A the beginning Jamie tells her teen-age daughter, “Make good choices!” I love it. I use it all the time now and get the eye-roll thing from Brennan #1, but it does make her realize that SHE has choices and they are not always equal. I also try really hard to instill in them that they have to live with the consequences of their actions.
But I’m dreading the teen-age years.
by Allison October 17th, 2006 at 12:38 pmWhew okay! I feel better. I haven’t been blogging with 100% of my mental capacity lately and sometimes………anyway, Allison, immagine hearing “it’s not my fault” from a 37 YO man. Yeah…….I LOVE Freaky Friday! My #2 watches it every time he gets sick (which means I do too).
Karin one of my proudest moments with #1 was this last summer at daycare when he refused to write sentences (punishment) because he’d had no involvement in something that had gone on. I was tickled pink because he stood up for himself, to adults, and refused to back down.
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